Friday, January 18, 2008
Was Judas Called
Over the last few days, I have received a number of questions regarding whether or not Jesus actually called Judas. According to Mark 3:13-19, he was in fact called. He was in the group Jesus called out of a larger group from which he appointed the twelve. He is also listed as one of those Jesus called to be one of the twelve. For a contrary view, see Desire of Ages 293-294. I cannot find any scriptural basis for this latter position or for linking him with the young lawyer.
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13 comments:
Elder: your statement would seem to place doubt in the inspired authority of the Spirit of Prophecy regarding details on Judas' desire to be among the disciples. I am sure this is not your intent.
Instead of saying, "Follow me" to Judas, He tries to dissuade him according to the SOP - which is taken from the very text you say does not apply individually to Judas. Jesus suffered Judas to be among the twelve.
Dr Melbourne,
Your statement of doubt re the inspriation of the Spirit of Prophecy is shocking! I am sure that you and others realize that so many of our people take what is written in our SS quarterlies as the whole truth. They believe our lessons can be trusted.
Of course, we must study for ourselves, to see if our leaders are speaking truth, but, I hope you will realize that to a great degree you are infulencing many for eternal life, or for eternal death. That is a huge responsibility, and it would be wise not to state your opinions as truths, for many of them are not.
According to Mark 3: 13, Jesus called whom he would. There is not a list of names at this point. Mark 3:14 states he ordained 12. The list of ordained is in the following verses. Ellen White does not contradict the Bible in her statements:
”While Jesus was preparing the disciples for their ordination, one who had not been summoned urged his presence among them. It was Judas Iscariot, a man who professed to be a follower of Christ. He now came forward, soliciting a place in this inner circle of disciples. With great earnestness and apparent sincerity he declared, 'Master, I will follow Thee whithersoever Thou goest.' Jesus neither repulsed nor welcomed him, but uttered only the mournful words: 'The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay His head.' Matt. 8:19, 20. Judas believed Jesus to be the Messiah; and by joining the apostles, he hoped to secure a high position in the new kingdom. This hope Jesus designed to cut off by the statement of His poverty.” DA, p. 293, 294
"But before he embarked he was accosted by a scribe who had listened to his words, representing the jewels of truth as being of far greater value than hidden treasure. In the grossness of his darkened mind, the scribe conceived that Jesus designed to enrich his followers with worldly treasure. He therefore eagerly addressed him, as had Judas, saying, 'Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.' The Saviour read the unworthy thought that actuated his heart, and answered him as he had answered Judas, 'The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of Man hath not where to lay his head.' This Jewish teacher had only his own selfish interest in view when he proposed to follow Jesus. He hoped that the Saviour would soon establish his kingdom on earth, and that the wealth and station which would then accrue to his disciples, were the riches of which Jesus had spoken. But only a mind blinded by avarice and the lust of the world could so have misinterpreted the words of the Saviour. 2SP p. 305
Do you realize that your “contrary” thinking can lead others to doubt God has given His people greater insight for the last days? And that by your "contrary" thinking, thinking your wisdom is greater, you have placed yourself as more than a prophet? "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Romans 12:3.
I guess I will just ask you straight up (although I am sure you will be much too cowardly to answer) do you or don't you believe in the trustworthiness of the SOP?
A simple yes or no will do. If the answer is yes than I am certain you will agree with the reference in Desire of Ages.
If your answer is no than it would be best if you discontinued accepting sustenance from faithful tithe-paying Seventh-day Adventists who expect their tithe to go to those who are true Adventists.
So which is it Mr. Melbourne?
Mr. Melbourne;
I agree completely with the previous posters. In terms of the topic of Judas' calling, you are using less than a direct statement from Scripture added to your opinion in an attempt to refute a direct statement from the SOP and pit it against Scripture. ?
Sometimes too many letters behind one's name can lead to such.
Scripture also does not say that the serpent had wings before it was cursed in the garden but the SOP amplifies that it had. Do you take every instance where Scripture does not give a clear indication and the Spirit of Prophecy does, as an opportunity to pit the two against each other?
Then in the quarterly you use an obviously true missionary story and imply it is a parable followed by a recommnendation that we might have to do similarly. Drinking blood is expressly forbidden in Scripture. At the very least it is a poor example of being all things to all people. You use a corrupted translation cutting out half of the memory verse and then implying situation ethics. There are plenty of missionary stories that could be used to express going the extra mile to reach a soul without one which promotes doing what Scripture expressly forbids.
King Saul attempted to obey God by disobeying God and he was soundedly rejected of Heaven.
You should be stripped of any leaderhsip ability whatsoever until you fall humbly at the feet of Jesus and become teacheable.
Sincerely;
Colporteur
Dear Dr. Melbourne:
I am sorry that you have to endure comments such as these. Rest assured that many people are praying for you and appreciate your contributions to our Church.
Blessings,
David
Thank you David:
The number of people from around the world who have indicated the blessings they are receiving far outweigh these kinds of comments. I wish all this enthusiasm could be employed for the task of discipleship. It would certainly lead to the fulfillment of the mission God has given to His church. That is where I am placing my energies. God bless!
Six out of seven called you to task for your anti-Ellen White stance, you refuse to address their legitimate concerns, and then you finally respond when one single individual affirms your damaging course.
Do you have the integrity and courage to answer the simplest question that has been asked about your position regarding the SOP?
I will ask you the question again: Do you or don't you believe in the trustworthiness of the SOP?
You're silence speaks volumes Mr. Melourne.
Dear Pastor Bob:
Thanks for your commennts! My silence speaks volumes to you but others may see that I am not willing to allow you to think for me or to determine how I should or should not respond. My position on the Spirit of Prophecy is evident from the Sabbath School Bible Study Guide and my other published works which you may examine for yourself.
My blog is designed to give further insights on the SS lessons. I will most certainly respond to comments that are made respectfully and in the Spirit of the Lord.
Have a great day and may God bless you as you trod the way of discipleship!
Dear Brother Melbourne,
You have been asked repeatedly for a simple answer to a simple question and you have repeatedly refused to answer.
I would say that based on your comments your position on the Spirit of Prophecy is very clear:
"For a contrary view, see Desire of Ages 293-294. I cannot find any scriptural basis for this latter position or for linking him with the young lawyer."
Very clear indeed.
Trying to avoid answering the question with comments like,
"I will most certainly respond to comments that are made respectfully and in the Spirit of the Lord"
and
"The number of people from around the world who have indicated the blessings they are receiving far outweigh these kinds of comments. I wish all this enthusiasm could be employed for the task of discipleship. It would certainly lead to the fulfillment of the mission God has given to His church. That is where I am placing my energies"
and
"My silence speaks volumes to you but others may see that I am not willing to allow you to think for me or to determine how I should or should not respond", helps no one.
How ironic that you miss entirely that your comments are doing exactly what you are accusing me of. I do not place my energies into discipleship because I take the time to challenge your comments that leave the impression that Ellen White is contradicting the Bible? PLEASE!
Myself and others were trying to give you an opportunity to clarify your position on the trustworthiness of Ellen White.
Your statement "for a contrary view", regarding her comments on Judas which leaves the impression she is contradicting the Scriptures is unacceptable and you need to be called out for it.
I might add that TRUE disciples do not remain silent when they feel error is being promoted Brother Melbourne.
A simple "I trust fully in the inspiration, authority, and trustworthiness of Ellen White's writings" after the first post would have avoided all that followed.
Your unwillingness to do do so leaves the impression that you don't.
Obviously, judging from the feedback, I am not alone in receiving that impression.
Saying, "My position on the Spirit of Prophecy is evident from the Sabbath School Bible Study Guide and my other published works which you may examine for yourself" doesn't answer the question! In fact, it adds to the suspicion about where you really stand.
Why this dogged unwillingness to answer a direct question in a direct way?
You may choose to insinuate that I am not addressing you in a manner that is "respectful and in the Spirit of the Lord" and then use that as a flimsy excuse to avoid the question if you wish.
Apparently the difference between me and you is that I don't beat around the bush, I get to the point and ask the questions straight out. If I am asked a question I answer in a clear straightforward manner as well. I have nothing to hide. Repeatedly avoiding answering a simple question in a straightforward manner leaves the impression that you do.
Again a simple, "I trust fully in the inspiration, authority, and trustworthiness of Ellen White's writings", would lay this whole matter to rest. For the record, I can answer that question unhesitatingly with a resounding Yes!
Eagerly awaiting your response.
God Bless,
Bob
Elder ---
I am sorry for so many people attacking you. This is exactly why I am so disappointed in the people of faith. Have we become Pharisees, so quick to attack others based our own traditions? Do we believe in Ellen White so strongly as to hold her writings on an equal level with the Bible? Have we forgotten that we should not be condemning others, but focusing on ourselves? Most people think words change people, but love changes people.
Keep pouring your heart honestly into your work. Accept that we are all sinners and all doing our best to find the way to heaven. And most of all, shrug off the modern day Pharisees who attack you, instead focusing on the ones who appreciate you.
God Bless.
Dear Shard:
I am sorry that I had not seen your comments before tonight. Thanks for expressing your views. Some people are more concerned about doctrinal orthodoxy as they see it than about fulfilling the mission of Christ or loving their fellowmen as Christ loves us. I think some of us still need to meet Christ.
The interesting thing about this discussion is that I am quoting the Bible yet folks are not willing to let it speak. Yet there is one more scripture that gives conclusive evidence to my position that I had forgotten. In John 6:70-71 Jesus Himself says, "Have not I chosen you, twelve and one of you is a devil? He spake this of Judas Ischariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."
I have learnt through my forty years of ministry and thirty years of training ministers that I do not have all the answers; I should let Scripture speak for itself, and I should stand humbly before the word of God. Moreover, we should also not forget that Ellen White herself says her writings are the lesser light to lead to the greater light--the Bible and if there are conflicts the Bible comes first. That is my position. May God bless you real good.!
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